Onekay - Latest Comments

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Frankos — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:23:01 -0000

Try writing your own framework.. You will definitely become a better PHP programmer. It makes you realize the advantages of:

Breaking your website into modules.
Why object orientated programming is so powerful.
Why HTML just gets in the way.
Why writing forms, form validation and using POST's are just a repetitive boring process.
Why having your own framework gives you the alter mate control.

I don't have to write any HTML at all now, the framework objects do it for me.

Re: tinyarro.ws offers the shortest urls in the business

Neil Fitzgerald — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:44:23 -0000

Hmm...

I have absolutely nothing to say to you!

(Odd how hostile that sounds isn't it? lol)

Hope life is treating you well.

Cheers,

Neil

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

terry chay — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:29:40 -0000

I like this idea (doing the same app in different frameworks). In fact I think Iâ€™ll try it. I only did hello world and then jumped to twitter-like appâ€¦ which was a problem.

Re: PHP UK Conference 2009

LornaJane — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:59:00 -0000

I also enjoyed the conference. I think the point about power is a good one but remember a venue like this will charge for every item that gets plugged in!! As for the Ibuildings shirts, that wasn't all of our UK people, and there were some (including me) that weren't Ibuildings branded :)

Re: pow($zend, 3) // or three zend posts in one

Branko — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:46:18 -0000

Unbelievable... thank you Aaron. I totally overlooked "Advanced" button for some reason. I was going crazy with this "add external folder as linked" feature... Thank you. Cheers...

Re: Zend not able to make thier own website work?

George Grecu — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:04:25 -0000

I also passed the exam in April 2008 from Canada... and my accounts are not linked. I just finished writing them an email asking for some help. I keep my fingers crossed for a prompt reply.

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Stuart — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:51:48 -0000

First off, I agree with Bob that you need to know how to do what the framework does or you risk serious confusion. An example: with the Zend Framework you can populate form fields from a database very easily (literally just $form->populate($data) assuming your table keys match the form field names). However... put a select element into that table and it won't get populated. You need to know that the framework expects an array to populate a select which means you need to be able to understand and take care of that on your own. In my instance that meant making a database call from within my form's (which extends Zend_Form_Abstract) init method, flatten the array (I didn't want a multi-dimensional array), assign the value to the key (so that I had array(1=>1,2=>2) rather than array(0=>1, 1=>2) because the key would be interpreted as the select's value while the value would be displayed and I needed them to be equal) and then pass that array to the select element. The framework doesn't help with this at all (and there is nothing in the manual about this... that is ZF's biggest shrotcoming in my opinion) so you need to be able to figure it out yourself.

@Silvio - I personally prefer the Zend Framework. It is flexible and let's me work in a way that is more familiar to me... makes "learning the framework" less of a chore.

@Alan - I agree. I don't think I've ever seen a tutorial or set of examples that went in depth very much at all on something like this. They usually start of with "We'll make a super simple..." (i.e. basically useless), have a "one, two skip a few" set of instructions or use some extremely programmer specific techniques that make what should be "standard" into a pretzle of "why'd he do it that way? Wha...?"

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Alan Pinstein — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:48:37 -0000

Stuart definitely has the right idea. It's that exact set of questions which led me to write my own framework 4 years ago instead of using an existing one, because there was no framework that I could easily *tell* did all of these things well 4 years ago due to lack of documentation and examples.

In fact, the "home" page about my phocoa framework lists exactly that set of questions a solution areas. (Except translation; haven't tackled that one yet).

It would be nice if there was a "standard" evaluation example and all of the PHP frameworks had a tutorial on that exact project. This would make it much easier for people to compare the frameworks to see which framework's style and architecture best suited them.

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Silvio — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:14:32 -0000

Stuart, what PHP framework you think implements this features? (or near)

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Marc Gear — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:37:38 -0000

Stuart,
I wanted to get away from a list of responsibilities that a framework should handle, and create a set of simple no-brainer apps that would allow a user to explore the framework and its intricacies and differences from what else is available.

Personally I find working from the abstract lists of functionality offered by frameworks in most framework documentation a very slow way of learning. I believe that the best way is to build real apps, exploring the documentation and features of the code as you go. As you'll appreciate, building the apps I suggest will cover most of the areas you mention.

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

bob — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:20:03 -0000

Frameworks are only good if you know how to do the same work without the framework. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Phillip — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:17:42 -0000

Stuart is spot on. I recommend removing your weak points 1-4 and putting in Stuart's points 1-7. Rushi, AJAX is a client side technology. PHP frameworks should support all the AJAX libraries as templates can output XML and JSON as easily as HTML. Choosing an AJAX library is a whole other independent subject. Translation is complex and no framework in any language has it perfect. I would actually push Stuart's point 4 up to the top of his list as it affects the ability to generate quality content. If it's too restrictive and you have to start significantly modifying it then you may as well have written your own framework in the first place.

Phillip.

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Stuart — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:06:43 -0000

I'd suggest something more abstract. Some of the core areas to learn in a framework are (IMHO and in no particular order):

1. How to handle authentication and authorization (and how to persist and retrieve this data)

2. How to handle database manipulation (CRUD at least)

3. Creating/filtering/validating forms

4. How to use the framework's basic templating system

5. How to access the data being passed by the framework's various objects (requests, responses, registries, etc.)

6. Pagination

7. Implementing search

8. Overall configuration possibilities for the framework (xml, yaml, ini files, etc.)

9. Integrating AJAX

10. Translation

11. Handling exceptions

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Marc — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:41:28 -0000

How about using a decent editing tool like Eclipse? (Or any other tool for that matter) It'll give you some helpful tools figuring out what all the classes do and what inherits what...

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

CLee — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:32:14 -0000

@AppBeacon

However, they make it easier to code by not having to know as much about how a language really works and keep you from learning that language better to a degree.

I think that's probably one of the most important reasons people use frameworks. It's more productive by writing less code and it's proven by many others. I think many places care about how good you are at Cake or ZF. Why is .NET so popular? As a management's stand point, it's easy to find a developer who know .NET and can take over a .NET app.

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Dave — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:28:17 -0000

Some useful tips and interesting comments. I think it is good for any programmer (regardless of language) to look at various frameworks from time to time. This gives you the opportunity to look at the code and to see how other people have handled a particular problem. It can be a very useful learning experience as well as exposing you to alternative methods and thinking.

@AppBeacon: agreed. Being versatile is definitely a bigger advantage than being a "Cake Ninja" or "ZF Guru" for example (unless that IS what the company wants ;) )

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

rzei — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:10:14 -0000

Since having turned from php programmer into the big Java world with Spring and Tomcat I haven't looked back since the beginning of the learning curve. (While in the beginning of the learning curve I screamed for php easiness, but later on I do not regret my choice.)

I still believe that php has it's place but when you really need to use Symphony or Cake for your _client_ I believe you've gone wrong right there. If you are getting payed good, why not provide your client with something with higher performance and quality?

Quality doesn't come free though, while I do think that all Java's annoyances (packages, strict file placement, one class per file) will eventually guarantee that your code _will_ be more readable in the future. Use of other advanced technology like Spring yields much better code through programming of POJOs against interfaces.

Disclaimer: I do not mean to troll, but first seeing the topic and then reading AppBeacon's comment finally made me to share my experiences as a fellow web-developer.

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

AppBeacon — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:42:49 -0000

I'll play the devil's advocate.

You should also consider whether spending the time learning a new framework would be better spent learning your language of choice. Learning a new framework is not going to make you a better PHP developer. It's going to make you a better Cake or Symphony or Yii developer.

When you're going for a great job, MOST places don't care how well you know Cake. They want to know if you can jump in with existing code, pull data out of a database, and display it nicely.

I'm not saying frameworks aren't useful. However, they make it easier to code by not having to know as much about how a language really works and keep you from learning that language better to a degree.

Re: How to learn a new PHP framework

Rushi — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:56:36 -0000

I'd like to propose an addendum to #3. "Use Ajax"

A lot of frameworks have Ajax support built in and in today's world it would be good to know how well your framework supports it.

Re: Things I learnt at FOWA (and things I need to need to learn more about)

Martin F. — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:16:32 -0000

Would love to know if Polyvore works with .po files, if they do then that's just the web interface I'm looking for and would love some more details about it.

Re: I learn something new every day. (PHP Quality Assurance)

Adam — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:24:47 -0000

Never knew this!
Great blog! keep up the good work, will be reading more into PHP's Quality Assurance (and the secret website)

Re: Is PHP a solid job prospect?

Adam — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:19:55 -0000

PHP Must be a solid job prospect as a 'bad' php developer (then) i was able to earn Â£3k a month, that occurred 3months in a row after they recommended me to each other.

It had nothing to do PHP code, more high knowledge of basic requirements to launch new websites, expanding and implementing suggestions (what they did not think of!).... What gets you the job not quality PHP! its quality user experience.

Saying that, I'm now undertaking revision for Zend PHP 5 Certification. Soon I can offer great websites, with quality code!! lol

PHP5 Certification Blog: *New
http://www.is-hacked.com/blog

Some comments complain about people undervaluing PHP, thats not their fault its down to your bad self promotion. Every time I bid for a project in person they think im some kind of genius! As you can tell by my grammar and spelling that's not true.

Re: Is PHP a solid job prospect?

PHP Encoder — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 05:39:05 -0000

I know there are a lot of very good php developers. And if you can't find good one nearby its time to think about outsourcing.

Re: I learn something new every day. (PHP Quality Assurance)

PHP Encoder — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 05:35:24 -0000

WOW, I didn't know that either! Thank for sharing it! These conferences are useful eh? ;)

Re: PHP London 2008

Rob... — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:24:15 -0000

LinuxJedi,

I hope you got the servers sorted quickly!

Regards,

Rob...